The Case for a Retro List

FrxztOfficial commented

2024-12-19 05:22:26 +00:00

With the new physics update wiping everyone's records, the first great map culling presented Surf and Bhop with a unique opportunity to remove maps from the game. Years after it took place, there are players who continue to express discontent, whether it be with maps currently in the game, or with controversially removed maps. For example, there are many players who want Sweet Factory back in the game, players who want gg no re gone, and players who want The Flash removed because it lost the vote, but was added anyways due to popularity. It is evident that even after the culling, there were maps that survived that probably shouldn't have. This precedence also resulted in calls for map removals which continue to persist and anger the competitive playerbase, who spend hours on end grinding these maps. This has been a source of constant division, and I believe that it is because we are forced to choose between two extremes: Acceptance and total removal. Concurrently, even if most people hate a map, they would not support total removal because removal jeopardizes people's records. Thus, map removal has become taboo, and in the end no one is left feeling content.

Map council discussions about these issues have led to the proposal of a decommission (retro) list, which is a selection of maps kept separate from the main nomination list for the purpose of preserving records and maps deemed too low quality to be bunched up with the other main maps. This list could bring back old maps that were removed in the culling, and store currently residing main maps that people may want decommissioned. This could be an ideal solution because it creates a middle ground between total acceptance and removal. It also creates a contingency in the event of future map removals, and a safety net that protects everyone's records. While most council members agree with the existence of a system like this, there is controversy in how we would execute the idea, like whether to exclude these maps from the skill-rank leaderboard, establish a separate skill-rank leaderboard specifically for them, or treat them like bonuses.

With the new physics update wiping everyone's records, the first great map culling presented Surf and Bhop with a unique opportunity to remove maps from the game. Years after it took place, there are players who continue to express discontent, whether it be with maps currently in the game, or with controversially removed maps. For example, there are many players who want Sweet Factory back in the game, players who want gg no re gone, and players who want The Flash removed because it lost the vote, but was added anyways due to popularity. It is evident that even after the culling, there were maps that survived that probably shouldn't have. This precedence also resulted in calls for map removals which continue to persist and anger the competitive playerbase, who spend hours on end grinding these maps. This has been a source of constant division, and I believe that it is because we are forced to choose between two extremes: Acceptance and total removal. Concurrently, even if most people hate a map, they would not support total removal because removal jeopardizes people's records. Thus, map removal has become taboo, and in the end no one is left feeling content. Map council discussions about these issues have led to the proposal of a decommission (retro) list, which is a selection of maps kept separate from the main nomination list for the purpose of preserving records and maps deemed too low quality to be bunched up with the other main maps. This list could bring back old maps that were removed in the culling, and store currently residing main maps that people may want decommissioned. This could be an ideal solution because it creates a middle ground between total acceptance and removal. It also creates a contingency in the event of future map removals, and a safety net that protects everyone's records. While most council members agree with the existence of a system like this, there is controversy in how we would execute the idea, like whether to exclude these maps from the skill-rank leaderboard, establish a separate skill-rank leaderboard specifically for them, or treat them like bonuses.

Quaternions commented

2024-12-19 05:51:40 +00:00

Owner

Reworking the entire backend to include a separate map pool and separate leaderboard system is too large of an undertaking. If you do decide maps must be removed with the current system, you better be sure you also want to destroy the times. Something like this may make more sense if the games are changed to a "map list" loading system where maps can be specified to load in the in-game maps list per game. This would mean that maps could be loaded into the maps list on more than one game, or none, but continue to have a database map entry. Then there is only one map pool and records database, but there is an "official" or "competitive" map list subset which are used for rank calculations and are loadable. Currently I'd describe the map loading as based on "GameID" where a map is meant for exactly one game, no more, and no less.

FrxztOfficial commented

2024-12-19 09:02:31 +00:00

Author

I figured this would be difficult to pull off. If the retro list is not a feasible option, an alternative we discussed that should work in the confines of the current system was the idea of having official combinative maps for both games. This map would preserve "removed" maps in the form of bonuses, zoned and configured to emulate the feel of the original map. So if we ever collectively decide that a map is bad and we do not want it in the nominate list anymore, we can change the map to a bonus and transfer those main map times to become bonus times. To configure the maps, we could use fiveman's lighting script. An "unloader" that stores any maps not being played would also be beneficial so that in the worst-case scenario, only a handful of maps are loaded at a time.

itzaname added the

enhancement

label 2024-12-20 05:03:22 +00:00

The Case for a Retro List #7